Fixing Healthcare… From The Trenches (Episode 5)

Dr.Badia (00:00):
Good morning, it’s Dr. Badia. Welcome to another episode our podcast “Fixing Healthcare… From the Trenches.I know this is a tall order, butI just ran into a colleague, who, was griping about what’s happening to our system and what insurance companies are doing, and it’s time to do something. So that’s, why we’re here.This week I have the utmost pleasure to introduce a colleague, a physician, an entrepreneur who saw this coming many years ago. Dana Correl is an internist. She got her MD degree from the Sackler School of Medicine in Tel Aviv University in Israel. She did her internal medicine training at Albert Einstein and Monte, we called it Monte Montefiore Medical Center. Very similar to Bellevue. And she also was involved in a program of the 9/11 aftermath at Mount Sinai,called,medical Monitoring and Treatment Program.

Dr.Badia (01:01):
So she’s been a very avid clinician, won multiple awards in that realm and stepped away from medicine and we want to talk to her about why she chose to do that. And we see many other doctors doing that. So she is a founder of SoMeDocs, which stands for, it’s an acronym for Social Media Docs. It’s those of us physicians who realize that we need to educate our patients and also each other about the issues we face, whether they be just medical for the good of patients, but also about what’s happening to our profession and our roles in society. So I’d love to welcome Dr. Dana Corriel to our program.

Dr.Dana Corriel (01:42):
Hi everyone. Thank you so much for having me, and thank you for that warm introduction

Dr.Badia (01:47):
{Laugh}. Thank you, Dana. We’ve actually only spoken, I think oncewell over a year ago when you were, you know, earlier on in SoMedocs. And I’ve been a member almost since then and been you know, very, very pleased with what, with what you’re doing. So I’d love to hear what inspired you to start that.

Dr.Dana Corriel (02:08):
Sure. I mean, so many things inspired me, but you hit on some of those really important points, which are that healthcare is broken. I felt it firsthand as a physician that trained traditionally and as a physician that went into internal medicine and chose that general field because I love humans and I love people, and I want them healed and it just was a space that I didn’t get when I was actually practicing in, we go through such a lengthy period to become a physician. Everybody in the world knows how difficult it is to become one, but we then get plopped into the real world and suddenly find ourselves, especially today in a field where we’re not, it’s not what we were promised it would be. How about that, that, or it’s not what always dreamed it would be. Exactly. So that’s the main reason that I started it.

Dr.Badia (03:04):
Which is which I think is sad. I mean, I’m trying, you know, I wrote a book about these challenges and you know, I even reached out to my own medical school in New York and said, you know, I’d love to donate this book to the graduating class, and there’s just, there’s no engagement. So even though we tried to help, it’s very difficult. I’m sure you noticed that with your, with your platform.

Dr.Dana Corriel (03:28):
Absolutely. Well, I’m going to say it because I’m not employed by a traditional hospital system. I can’t, I I can’t blame the hospital systems. I mean, it’s, it’s terrible to say this out loud, but I’m going to the hospital systems don’t always want us to talk to each other and to educate one another because they are sometimes a part of the problem, right? So I don’t blame them for saying, well, we don’t want to spread this information to our trainees because the trainees are somewhat indoctrinated that this is how it should be, and you need to sort of follow this line, this order. And if you don’t, then you’re kicked out. It’s the attendings, it’s us. It’s the people that already are past that and have nothing to lose. There’s very few of us that have nothing to lose. Really. I’m just not practicing clinical medicine, so I can speak out. That’s the problem in our field. That’s the biggest problem, is that most of us don’t feel like we can speak out about the injustices that are happening to doctors that are actually affecting patients and patient care.

Dr.Badia (04:35):
Hmm. You know, it’s interesting you say that because one of the things I’ll tell my colleagues when we have this conversation, which as you know, now dominates conferences physician lounges, it used to be, you know, talking about an interesting case, and now it’s like a gripe session. I say, folks you know, I understand all that, but really we should start to worry when that insurance executive or the hospital CEO learns how to manage, you know, malignant hypertension or learns how to do a four vessel coronary bypass. That is when we should worry. We have the power, we have the knowledge. It doesn’t mean we have to be aggressive but we have to demand a seat at the table.It’s society that needs to care about this and my goal with this podcast is to get people, you know, the public to listen in and to get involved. Now, I’m not sure what that’s gonna take. All right. We, we saw it happen with a few bad cops, all right? And it’s happening again now and good, that’s creating some social change, but healthcare’s 20% of our GDP we talk about inflation. I mean, what do you, what do you thinkDr. Corriel we need to do to get the public engaged in this problem?

Dr.Dana Corriel (05:54):
Well, first of all, what I think is that what I’m doing, doing partly is somedocs, I don’t think it’s all of the solutions, but I do think it’s a start.I worry because I do find that we have grievance sessions during, you know, our free time. I find that it is not an obvious correlation. There’s no sort of like direct correlation in terms of what’s happening now. It’s sort of like subtle. The things that are happening to us that are not right, that are affecting patients, are not affecting them to the point where they see it. And that’s the issue. That’s the problem. Why the world is not the, the country will focus on the country. That’s the problem. Why the country doesn’t feel like the average person doesn’t feel like there’s an issue. We’ve always been looked at as doctors, right, as the respected, sort of like higher echelons of society that sort of do our own thing and are, you know, the top of the food chain, et cetera, et cetera.

Dr.Dana Corriel (06:51):
Nobody really sees the struggle. We’re starting to see it. It’s just the tip of the iceberg, the burnout, the fact that so many doctors are now burning out, are trying to find either side ventures, they’re trying to find alternate means of income, or they are trying to retire early like I did and that’s a big, big problem because who’s going to take care of us if all of the doctors are burning out and leaving? And I want everybody listening to really think about that. Because what we’re seeing also is we’re seeing replacements, right? Who have sometimes trained differently and oftentimes trained less. And you know what, if that’s what the world wants, then that’s fine, but if we decide that it’s medical school that is required to become a physician to treat us medically, then that is where we need to focus on our attention on fixing it.

Dr.Dana Corriel (07:47):
So, so that’s one part of the, the answer. And the other part is what is the solution? The solution is starting to speak up. I think one of the solutions also is building brands for each of the doctors, not just because they need to speak up about this. Let’s put that aside. Let’s say that you’re employed by a hospital system and you don’t feel comfortable speaking up because you feel like you’re going to be fired, which is an absolute, you knowrealistic threat.Build a brand so that you can protect your worth, your intellectual property, and you can always break off and develop your own practice like a private practice, become an entrepreneur, become smart at what you’re building so that it’s you that has that relationship with a patient. And if you end up leaving the hospital system, the patient can easily go with you or find you, et cetera.

Dr.Badia (08:41):
And they will. And we see that. But I will say, I have to call out the entire public on this. I went out ofnetwork 10 years ago, and it is amazing how many people will call my office sometimes with a complex problem, and they’re just, just not willing to pay something out of pocket to see somebody who maybe is an expert in this particular area, and they feel that the, you know, the insurance company will take care of them.

Dr.Badia (09:08):
This, this has to change. People have to realize that, you know what, you know, you’re willing to pay for Botox or this or that. Well, now you’ve gotta be willing to pay for when you have severe shoulder pain. I mean, and that’s what I’m, that’s what I’m struggling with as a practitioner, but I’m seeing a change. I’m seeing it.

Dr.Dana Corriel (09:25):
Yeah. I think that that’s a bigger issue. That is a very long discussion. And it is a problem with the insurance companies that came in the middle in between in order to protect the patient. You know, theoretically that was the first primary goal was to protect the patient. But unfortunately, over the years has really taken advantage of being that middle man of collecting absurd amounts, of putting immense pressures on the actual physician that’s trying to treat. And so it is much more complex than that simple interaction, although from the outside to the public, it may seem like it’s the doctor, for example, that is demanding certain things or why should the price go up? In actuality when you take out the insurance, I’m seeing a ton of different private practice solutions come up, including, for example, the direct care model. When you take out the middlemanit is the prices shoot down. The insurance companies often have to inflate the prices in order to make certain things right behind the scenes, but it isn’t right, because it’s actually increasing the bottom dollar for the patient, and it is making reimbursements very low so that the doctor is unhappy and they have to work harder and do actually things that are oftentimes unnecessary and irrelevant to theso yeah, it’s a problem.

Dr.Badia (10:53):
You think about the amount of money that employers, right, because, we live in a country right, where most healthcare is employer based, and I think employers, and we’re seeing that as, you know, employers are getting more involved and doing, you know, elf-insured models. And I think we’re gonna see more of that. So the question is, ou know, the public has to get engaged, has to speak to their employers, put this on their social media and really start a discussion about this because everything you just said actually is fixable.It really is.So speaking of fixing, we have, nly a few minutes, and each week we ask our guests what would be three simple, not simple, but straightforward, straightforward steps that you would take to try to fix US healthcare.

Dr.Dana Corriel (11:46):
Okay, you know, we didn’t get to speak about, soMeDocs, which is actually my company, so quickly, it’s Doctorsonsocialmedia.com. To me, it’s about one educating the public, which we’re doing at SoMedocs. So there is absolutely a tab for the general audience where you can go, you could read articles that doctors are writing. A lot of them are griping and kind of explaining why the system isn’t working and what patients can start doing.So that’s one is educating the public, right? And if the public’s listening in, educate yourself, come to our website and read and listen to the lectures, et cetera. The second is educating physicians. Educating physicians, especially about entrepreneurial concepts, because the second we understand how the system is taking advantage of us and how we can individualize and win over the system because we suddenly understand our worth, and that we’re the ones that are actually running

Dr.Badia (12:44):
Delivering the care. Yes.

Dr.Dana Corriel (12:45):
Yeah. They cannot live without us.

Dr.Badia (12:47):
That’s, I love that, number two. And that’s for sure. All right

Dr.Dana Corriel (12:50):
Then we can start to, I hate to say it, win as patients and as physicians kicking out to some degree the middle man, making them less relevant. They’re important, but less relevant and then number threereally taking seriously this digital world in allowing it to market ourselves. This will arm us as individual physicians and allow us to actually not only shine, but connect with a target audience that’s going to become our patients. So that we no longer need to rely on a hospital system to market with, to market for us collectively with its millions of dollars that we don’t individually have. We can start finding solutions to market for free in a collective solution like somedocs, et cetera, et cetera.

Dr.Badia (13:37):
Exactly. You make that point, it’s free. I mean, this is not something that’s costly for us. It takes our time. Yes, there are some costs, but for patients seeking care, they have a great opportunity now. So I agree. So yes, public education, I’m going to give my three now, and we completely agree on that. Public education. So that’s whyI started this and thank you again for coming on. That’s why I wrote this book. I would love to see more patients actually read it. Healthcare from the Trenches.The, the second one that, that I say is see the right clinician at the right time. It is amazing how our system has gotten to the point where you have to go through all these hurdles to, you know, perhaps see an ophthalmologist. I mean, it’s pretty obvious. You know, women know when they need to go see their OBGYN. Men know when they need to go see urologists. Let’s focus healthcare a little bit more. The last one is a gripe, and it involves a middle man, is that there is too much focus on authorization. Once you know, once a patient sees a physician to me, I’m authorized already unless I make crazy decisions. And that’s why we need oversight. So I have no problem with insurance companiesor medical societies, et cetera. That’s why they’re in existence to provide oversight, not authorization. There’s a big difference. So those are my three. Any last words? You’re doing the right thing. So I hope that this drives not only physicians, right, but, but as you said, the public to somedocs and to get educated.

Dr.Dana Corriel (15:13):
Absolutely. Thank you. So last words are just check out doctorsonsocialmedia.com. There are so many different arms to that. There’s a, like I said, magazine, but there’s also a lecture section. There’s lectures for both the health professional and for the general audience. You can pick it with filters on the side.There are so many, there’s the side gigs that we’re doing all of our books and our speaking engagements, et cetera. And just be involved in some way that fits you or reach out and ask us, and we will show you how.

Dr.Badia (15:44):
Yeah, that’s wonderful. Yes.

Dr.Dana Corriel (15:45):
And thank you for having me.

Dr.Badia (15:46):
No, it’s a pleasure. As I’ve been urged to talk about maybe next week’s guest, so we may be bringing on a colleague, I’ll leave it as a surprise for now, who is an ER physician. Like our first guest was an ER physician, and this is somebody who’s in Congress now from the state of Georgia. So he is somebody who really is trying to fix it. Yeah. So we’ll be bringing him in.

Dr.Dana Corriel (16:12):
Kudos to him.

Dr.Badia (16:13):
Great. Yeah. I’m, I’m being asked to respond to some questions. So, , Problem is time, we’re trying to keep this to 15 minutes, right?

Moderator (16:20):
So let’s get to just one question. Yeah. It says, thoughts on nonprofit status of hospital system, yet all the money for consolidation to buy out other hospitals, build more buildings, et cetera.

Dr.Badia (16:32):
Yeah. , Dr. Corriel is shaking her head because she worked like I have in this sort of, you know, laser, remember that film, right? All, you know, non-for-profit. I mean, come on. We all pay taxes. We have to contribute. Let’s make this a fair playing field for everyone. Okay? The insurance companies should not be for-profit and hospitals should, you know, step up and contribute to society,in more than just medicine. So those are my parting words and see you next week.

Dr.Dana Corriel (17:06):
Bye everyone. Thanks. Bye-Bye

Dr.Badia (17:08):
Dana. Thank you.
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